I think we all (save Knicks fans) prayed the latest round of Zach Randolph rumors -- to Memphis, they said -- would die a quick, painless death. To the contrary. It's been either a rumor on life support or one which is taking the long, painful road to extermination. On Thursday, Inside Hoops proffered a minor confirmation talk was still brewing between NY and Memphis. Last night, Memphis Commercial-Appeal beat writer Ronald Tillery offered confirmation of talks on his Memphis Edge blog.Any potential Memphis deal involving New York forward Zach Randolph is now in the Knicks' court from what I'm told. The Griz will agree to a package that includes Darko Milicic and Marko Jaric going to the Knicks for Randolph. But Griz brass apparently wants the Knicks to pick up more of the deferred payments owed Randolph in the latter year of his contract. New York executives supposedly are deliberating.Further, the Memphis Flyer's Chris Herrington says there could be fire behind the rumors, based on talking with his sources. The real crux of the matter for me: how much cash is Memphis looking for to offset Randolph's massive 2010-11 contract? We're working with two teams which have different currencies here: the Knicks need cap space, the Grizz need cash, or the equivalent. Until now, cap space has been equivalent to cash for Memphis. But if they can get a player at some sort of discount, with a rich team playing part of his salary ... and lose burdens like Darko and Marko in the process, that's a neat re-purposing of that cap space into something more.
I get the feeling the Knicks would be happy to pay someone to take Z-Bo if it gets them under the league cap in 2010. James Dolan has cash to burn, which doesn't mean a thing if you can't legally sign worthy players. Using the cash to get the space is clever.
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I really hope Memphis doesnt do this. Im not a fan of the Grizz or anything , i just see how smart they have been and how they have set themselves up perfect to have a contending team in 2-3 years. With Conley,Mayo, and Gay already in place they already have a young group that looks like they could be the new Suns with the speed they will have and will have the ability to push it up and down the court pretty good. And by not signing any free agents this past offseason they made the right choice of not paying to much for a player isnt worth it so they will be able to spend that money in 2010 when there will be a butt load of FRANCHISE player material free agents to throw that money at. Add an Amare,Bosh, Wade type to that nucleus with Gasol and Arthur developing downlow also and i see a really good team in a few years.... instead of adding Zach and ruining it all they should just hold out.....
I also still feel the Cavs should try a trade for Zach. I believe a trade of Marbury, Zach, and Q-Rich for Big Ben, Wally, sign and trade West, and a pick or two would be a win-win situation for both clubs. Marbury and Zach would be motivated to play and try harder by knowing they have a golden opprotunity to play with the best player in the game (not to mention one of the top 10 of all time ALREADY) and Q would fit in cause all he it good for is spotting up and hitting the open three (something the Cavs dont have and need and Lebron would get him open A LOT). If Marbury doesnt work out, well his 22 mill (!!!!!) comes off the books after this year so its a win win really, plus they get a low post scorer in Zach instead of a low post nothing from Big Ben. As for the Knicks side, they get Wallys expiring contract and then Ben's is up after next year (instead of Zach's running through 2011) so they get plenty of cap room and West is a good young player. Overall the Cavs get that little bit more offense they need to help Lebron when he needs it in the playoffs and the Knicks get some space cleared.....
The Cavs do NOT want Zach,they have NO use for Q Rich as they already have 1 of the leagues best 3 pnt shooters in Gibson,plus Mo,Wally and Sasha, they certainly do NOT want Starbury,and they will NOT trade picks for a bunch of mental cases that would destroy their 2010 plans.This trade would add $12 mil. and make them the highest payroll in the league,BY FAR.The Cavs already are paying the luxury tax this year,so they would in essence,be paying Marbury $44 mil. for 1 year. Nobody is that insane.
Jesse: While Zach and Marbury can be decent players,you seem to think they are assets for the Knicks,that somebody would actually give up draft picks for them?Truth is,these guys are liabilities with their bloated contracts,and the Knicks will have to pay dearly to get rid of them.
have we forgotten .....zach was the knicks leading scorer and rebounder for the most part of last season .....Please keep him??
I don't think you should keep players around who haven't gotten you into the playoffs. Keep they healthy and the hard working. Those of you my age and older (33) remember the Riley Knick squad??? They owned the fourth quarter and if Riley would have put another guard in for Starks, things might've worked out differently....anyway, keep role players and get stars!
Mr. G. First off its only 22 mill for marbury and then that comes off the books anyway and if he does acutally use some of that talent ( and i think its definetly possible he does because of the chance to play with Lebron). And second, would you rather pay a 34 year old Ben Wallace 14 mill this year to play 24 minutes and average 4 points and seven rebounds or pay a 27 year old Zach R. for 17 points and 10 rebounds??? hmm tuff one. ANd would you rather pay a VERY slow footed 31 year old Wally (whose shot was just plain horrible after the Cavs acquired him)13 mill for 8 points or pay a 28 year old Q (with a more consistent shot) 8 mill this year??? hmm another tuff one. The only risk is Marbury and if it doesnt work with him (which i really think it would because he really just hasnt tried because he has had no reason but with Lebron he would have one) he is gone after this year. Find out the facts before you come at someone bud. The point is is that the only thing the Cavs need to make it back to the Finals is more offense (they were a good defensive team before they got Ben so its stupid to pay that price for him). This trade gets rid of 2 older players with horrible contracts who played horrible the second half of last season and into the playoffs. And in return gets them a proven solid low post presence and a talented point guard that is a risk but will be gone after the season anyway...
Jess: I don't know how you figure I came at you "bud",but obviously what you fail to realize,is that when a team goes over the luxury tax,then at that point,every dollar turns into 2 dollars.The Cavs are already way over the luxury tax now.Your trade scenario would add yet another 12-15 mil for this year.That,in itself,is completely ridiculous.So,in essence,Marbury would cost them $44 mil. for 1 year,and that IS a fact.I assumed you would consider that insane.Evidently not.If you're asking me is Zach and Marbury better players than Ben and Wally?YES,absolutely.But would I rather pay their bloated salary and length of Zachs contract?HELL NO,and nobody else would either.After all,isn't that why the Knicks are trying to dump them in the first place?And would you rather pay Delonte 3 mil this year,or Q 6-8 mil?I'll take West anyday of the week.On top of this mess,you want the Cavs to throw in a draft pick or 2? For what?Furthermore,Zach plays zero defense,and Marbury hardly plays at all anymore.They are both mental psycho babies that James wouldn't even want to play with.I don't know how you would consider Wally's expiring contract "horrible",when it is in fact,a huge asset.You might think that aquiring Ben was "stupid",but thats what they had to do to get rid of Hughes and Gooden,plus they got West,Wally's expiring contract and Joe Smith,who they basically traded for Mo Williams.Pretty good deal I'd say.So,the Cavs already addressed their point guard and offense,by adding Mo.Perhaps you missed these trades.Sure sounds like it.Lastly,the Cavs are in position to re-sign James in 2010,AND add a marquee player to run with him and Mo.Now do you really think your trade makes more sense than that? Hmmm,real tuff one.
Any other Knicks rumors out there?
Lol can you not do math? The only have to pay 2 dollars to a dollar for every dollar they are OVER the cap. You have just stated they will be 12 mill over with this deal so how do you get Marbury's will be 44 mill. You sound really stupid because your trying to list things and then turning around and saying something different. And West wont be making 3 mill anymore because he is asking for a bigger contract. Your acting as if the players they are trading to get these guys do not have bad contracts. If big ben wasnt so bad now and didnt have such a big contract (same with Wally) i wouldnt even think of making this trade. But the fact is is that they are already paying this ridiculous amount of money for players that dont produce and with the trade they take on a little bit more but get players that produce and at least earn half of their check. They would be paying Ben, Wally, and West around 34 mill this year and getting an average of 22 points and 14 rebounds FROM THE THREE COMBINED and a payroll of 34 mill. Instead they could pay the three from my trade around 12-`15 mill more for a 40 point average (and thats with Marbury not trying cause of being stuck in hell) and 14 rebounds (and like a said all three of their numbers will go up from playing with Lebron and on a serious contending team because they will try instead of how they played in New York when they were playing for nothing and knowing right now they can get away with it cause no one expects anything from the Knicks cause they have been so horrible). So SINCE they are already paying players with no talent anymore huge amounts of money it would be ok to trade for players with big contracts but acutally have talent. And trust me i keep up with eery little thing in basketball so i know about the trades and if you think that the Mo Williams trade "solves their offense problems" you an idiot in the game of basketball. IF they were going to make a trade for a point guard (already have West and Gibson) it should have been for a true pass first guy that could set up the offense. Instead they got another score first PG. Lebron needs a consistent low post scorer and another spot up three point threat and in this trade he gets those 2 things while only giving up an ,over the hill defender,a slow footed inconsistent shooter, and a player who plays a position they are deep in now and have been in a contract dispute for months. And with Marbury's contract coming off that is 22 mill coming free this year instead of only Wally's 13 and even if you add the difference between West and Q's contracts that is only another 3 mill so thats 22 instead of 15. Thats 7 mill more to work with next offseason to sign someone. And about Zach's contract, it is only one year longer then Ben's and your going to get a lot more production for only 2 or 3 mill more rather then no production for 14 mill. Im really tired explaining the same thing over and over. I take it u just dont understand common sense because i have made as simple as possible for you to comprehend. THAT ARE PAYING GUYS HUGE AMOUNTS ALREADY. Its not like they are trading good players with low contracts for bad players with high ones. They are trading over the hill players with huge contracts for younger guys with equally bad contracts that fit better around Lebron . And you keep mentioning about signing Lebron. This is the whole reason i suggested they make the trade, because if they dont do SOMETHING (other then add ANOTHER pass first PG) to add offense to this team he is leaving them. So it doesnt matter how much cap room they have in 2010 because he will have to make his mind up BY THEN so they need to do something NOW. If all they do is wait till then to use cap money and try to do something ,he is not going to sign a contract hoping that the new piece works out. He wants to see it before its time to sign so he KNOWS how the team plays. And i promise you the organization is willing to go 12 mill over for one year if its going to add offense and push them over the edge and show Lebron they can put together a championship team so he will sign another contract. i pppprrroooommmiisssseee you that .....
There's gotta be a way to fix the Knicks' mess....I think ever since that draft (when they passed on Artest), they went downhill. Scott Layden created most of this mess...Ewing should've retired a Knick and there should have been NO reason for a Mark Jackson comeback. When's the last time we had an impact draft picks or trades? Too bad we can't just waive most of the roster and start over.... :(
Obviously,you are about the dumbest little 12 year old twit on 2 legs.Can you not read at all?Never,ever did I say the Cavs are only 12 mil over the cap.They are actually 27 mil over the cap,and 15 mil over the luxury tax.What I did say, is that your trade would add about 12 -15 mil MORE to their current payroll for this year.You seem to think that is totally insignificant.Do you think the Cavs are printing their own money or what? However much a team is over the luxury tax,(15 mil in this case),at that point doubles to become a $30 mil. hit.Now add YOUR trade onto that total,($14 mil.MORE in this case),and that becomes another $28 mil. hit.So,in paying Marbury $22 mil. when you're that far over the luxury tax, becomes a $44 mil. liability.Are you following me numbnuts? Now,if Delonte West rejects the Cavs long term offer(about 4 mil per year),he will have no other choice but to play this year for the League Qualifying Offer of $2.76 mil. for this year, and then become an unrestricted free agent next year.The contracts of Ben,Wally and West =$30 mil...The contracts of Zach,Marbury and Q = at least $44 mil. -and probably more than that.There is NO WAY on earth,to dump $14 mil. more on a team that is already paying the luxury tax.What is there about this,that you can't understand smart guy? Wally is NOT in the Cavs future plans,anymore than an aging,over the hill Marbury would be.His contract however,will be a huge asset at the trade deadline,and should bring a serious upgrade to the roster at that time.Any idiot knows that. Ben will be gone in time for the 2010 sweepstakes,but having to pay Zach $17 mil. that year would destroy those plans.Again,any idiot can figure that out as well.In the meantime,Ben is our only defensive presence in the middle.Zach would be a disaster playing next to Big Z in that regard, and would not allow us to work in and develop JJ Hickson,a guy who most agree has enormous potential - Mo Williams has averaged 17ppg and over 6apg the last 2 years,he can shoot the trey,create his own shot,make the pass, and is athletic enough to play good D.This allows West or Gibson to man the SG,creates a nice rotation and provides great depth at both positions.Mo is a perfect fit to play with James and is indeed a huge addition to their offense.All of the expert analysts and writers agree to this fact,and that shows how utterly stupid your analysis is.The Cavs are already a hi-seed playoff team in the East,are certain to get a boost at the trade deadline,and are set up nicely for the future.(2010) Nobody in their right mind (and that certainly excludes you) would mortgage their future for Zach and Starbury. Get a grip dimbo.
Mr. G and Jesse....wow, I very much enjoyed your debates. Some arguments can be resolved using facts but the winner of arguments over opinions of talent can only be determined in hindsight. Regarding the fiscal issues of team salaries vs. getting the most bang for your buck, I think you both agree that going with the trade for the New York players would be more expensive. How much more? Well, it looks like between 15 million to 20 million dollars. Is that significant? It depends on how that would affect the team financially. Would it cripple the team so much so that they will go bankrupt? Would these contracts limit the ability of each team to sign other free agents? I think ultimately, any team would be willing to pay a large sum of 15-20 million more to win the title. Will this trade guarantee a title??? Instead of calling each other names and complaining that the other person said something inappropriate, why don't you both enumerate your arguments and just debate apples to apples topics. For example:
Mr. G
1. Keeping nucleus team would be cheaper
2. Trading for new players would distrupt team chemistry
3. Additional 15-20 million would bankrupt the team and or
would be financially uncessessary
Jesse
1. Trading for younger players would not add that much to
team salaries
2. If salaries are high already, might as well get younger and
slightly better players
3. 15-20 million more is not financially irresponsible for a cumulative total of 6 more points
4. New players would not distrupt team chemistry
good day, and hope you two resolve your issues in a peacefull way
selrach: Glad you enjoyed the "debate". Actually,I did try your approach,UNTIL- I started getting called "stupid" at every opportunity. My side of the debate, is not merely based on my opinion.It is based on FACT. Here's one I think you missed - When a team is already OVER the Luxury Tax limit,at that point, every dollar thats added results in a dollar penalty.So if a team adds $14 mil,they do so at a $28 mil. cost.Not the 15 -20 million that you figured.The Cavs are already VERY near to the highest payroll in the league.Obviously,taking another $28 mil. hit, is not even in the realm of possibility for ANY team,period.When somebody makes a trade suggestion,they need to KNOW what the other teams situation is FIRST,and THEN try to make an apples to apples trade based on talent,need, and contract situations.Especially when it comes to expiring contracts (such as Wally's),which are far more valuable at the trade deadline.That contract is an asset,and you don't pretend that it isn't,in order to make your point.Also,trying to disparage an addition like Mo Williams,when every analyst and sports writer in the country agrees he is a great fit,is just ridiculous and wreaks of non-sense.Explaining how Zach and Marbury are a great fit,when in reality,Zach plays NO defense,is proven to be a lousy teammate and with a horrible contract,while Marbury has the same issues AND is on the downside of his career age and health wise,makes no sense.Especially going to a team that stresses defense and is already set at the Guard positions.Some form of common sense and facts need to be used, when explaining why your trade makes sense for both teams.None of that happened here.
Jesse,or would you rather be called "selrach"? Ha -selrach. That was a good one. But yeh,I can resolve any issue in a peaceful way,if that is really what you want. I just think you got tripped up on the whole Luxury Tax thing,and then dug yourself a big hole. Maybe I still haven't really explained it in the best way I shoud have, as far as the Cavs situation is concerned. But sure,I can be civil. I just had to call you out on that "selrach" thing tho. And a good day 2u2
Read your comments Mr. g. You did say that Marbury will cost them 44 mill when he wont.I'm done arguing what you have and havent said when its there to read. And im done arguing that the only reason i said this trade makes sense is because they have to put more talent around Lebron period for him to stay for the "2010 sweepstakes. And when they keep this team and Ben's numbers are even lower plus add the decline of Big Z and Wally and the fact they have no low post scoring you will see that Lebron will not stay to see how whoever they pick up in '10 will work out. Lebron will be gone. And with Lebron i can tell you that franchise is making that 14 mill back that they would pay AND actually get production from their bad contracts. They easily make that money back from the revenue and star power and tv ratings and ticket sales Lebron makes. The franchise has to think in terms of making a team now so Lebron will wanna stay instead of paying 34 year olds who avergae 4 points a game 14 mill and then HOPING Lebron likes who they sign with the money they save. He wont. He has already made it known. So watch how much money they lose when Lebron leaves (in the hundreds of millions, if not over a billion in the long run) and compare that to "14 million". Its not even close which one makes more common sense. DOES NOT MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY THEY SAVE FOR 2010 IF LEBRON DOESNT STAY. But im done wit ya buddy... go write 15 paragraphs about something that doesnt matter one bit (the Cavs SAVING their money for 2010, stupidest thing the franchise can do) somewhere else man.....
And i still havent stopped laughing about the 12 year old comment. If your arguing this much with a 12 year old about basketball then you have a lot more problems then trying to comment about stuff on aol and correct things consistently that you say. Lol funniest image ever you arguing this much with a 12 year old....
Jesse,you are 1 hilarious guy.I mean,I'm just bustin' out laughing so hard.Man,that whole "selrach" drivvle had my sides hurting so bad. But now you've come up with this stand-up routine good enough for Comedy Central,about how the Cavs will go bankrupt,and James is leaving and Wally's staying and losing money by the billions-and it's all because they won't trade for Zach and Starbury.HaaaaHahaha - What a great punchline that was. Oh brother hahahaha - That's a doozy. We gotta get you an agent.
Yeh,thats it. How 'bout we get you a donkey in a straw hat, and you come out on stage riding the beast wearing a Knicks uni, and then start blabbering that jibberish all serious like. Oh man - and then you drop that punchline on 'em - Haaaaahaha- They'll be rollin' in the aisles I'm promising you.
I'm a hugh Knick fan and I am sick and tired of losing !!! Knick fans are about the most loyal fans in the nba. Despite not winning a championship in allmost 40 years they still fill the Garden everyday. It's time that the owners try to get a real center like Yao Ming. Houston might be inclined to trade him now because of his injury for the right combo of players such as Curry, Lee,and maybe a pick or 2. Then next year when Labron James becomes available with Yao on the team Labron would be more inclined to sign with the Knicks knowing with Yao on the team they would be a real force in the east. But this could only happen if the owners would stop trying to play it cheap and because of stupidity still having one of the biggest payrolls in the nba. At least with Yao and Labron they would be paying for 2 real franchise players and with few miner pieces we would have a real Championship team. With is something all Knick fans deserve!!!!!