FanHouse's Tom Ziller argues his ranking of the top 50 players in the NBA.Thanks to my overwhelming ego, I have not dared say this yet in our journey from 50 to 1: this choice, Kevin Garnett, won a coin toss against Tim Duncan. When I looked at the 2008-09 season and who I felt would be the best players in the NBA, I couldn't go one way or the other between Big Fun and the Big Ticket. So KG took tails and the No. 4 spot. I'm not ashamed of the arbitrary decision, though: it's probably the right choice by a smidgen.
Duncan gets mentioned as the greatest power forward ever, and might end up in a whole lot of top 10 all-time lists. But Garnett has been just as good through it all. Duncan has eight all-defense first team appearances. Garnett has seven. KG sits just a touch lower on all-time rebounds and blocks per game lists than Duncan, which can be in part attributed to Garnett's rookie season, where as a 19-year-old he played less than 30 minutes a game. In fact, during the pair's primes, KG led the league in rebounds four times. Duncan only finished as high as second once.
All this begs the question: is Garnett as good a defender as Duncan?
It's a tough case to make, when you consider San Antonio has been at or near the top of defensive rankings for basically the entirety of Duncan's career, while Garnett's Minnesota team fluttered about depending on the personnel. I think 2007-08 in Boston is telling, though. For the first time since Chauncey Billups, Garnett had a point guard who couldn't be described as a matador. Sam Cassell, Troy Hudsen ... could Duncan anchor a defense with marshmallows and still find himself with the No. 1 defense? Give Garnett a Rajon Rondo, it's a better comparison. In fairness, Rondo's a better stopper than Tony Parker. But look at all the other defensive aid Duncan has had: Bruce Bowen, David Robinson, Manu Ginobili -- Duncan's teams have always been better equipped to defend hard. This isn't a knock on Timmy, as the results matter. But it's plausible Garnett would have kept San Antonio atop the defensive rankings in Duncan's stead. Last season's magical Boston defense is Exhibits A through E.
And then there's offense. Duncan has been responsible for a greater share, the pair have been equally as efficient. But that's measured over the course of their careers. At their peaks, there's no question Garnett was the better weapon. Garnett's four-year run between 2002-03 and 2005-06 is unmatched this decade in terms of complete output. During that stretch, Garnett averaged 23/13/5. Simply outrageous, outrageous production.
2006-07 was a down year for Garnett, and was either translated as the first step in Ticket's decline or KG's cryptic plea to get out of town. The team was awful under Randy Wittman, who took over for a coach (Dwane Casey) who shouldn't have been fired. The roster around Garnett had become toxic it was so bad. Come Boston in 2007-08, the box score statistics again trickled down ... but not due to some crushing decline in Garnett's skills. Everything he had done for years, he did. Well, except lose ...
So we're still left with the question of whether Garnett's on his way out, or whether there's life left in him ... the same question we faced with Duncan. My prognosis for Boston is aimed higher than that of San Antonio: the Celtics, with Rondo and Leon Powe and the ever-buoyant Paul Pierce, actually might have an improving roster, which can only mean good things for the star. (See: Bryant, Kobe.) The Spurs are on their way out, which won't help Duncan make his case. And while Duncan probably holds the career lead on Garnett, the case should get a bit closer this season.
NBA Top 50
No. 50, Andris Biedrins, Warriors
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
10-09-2008 @ 4:42PM
Nora said...
So because Duncan had better defenders around him that means that ge is a better defender. It is possible to say Duncan is a better defender butt ot by looking at the teams they were/are on. Duncan had more help on the Spurs then KG had on the Wolves. It is a fact. So I suggest finding a better reason then that because having better teammates who play defense around them helps alot.
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10-09-2008 @ 5:29PM
pcbpiper said...
I think I just went blind reading Nora's comment.
Personally, Duncan is the epitome of the PF/C position since Hakeem retired. For me, it's not even a difficult choice between these two. Duncan's earned the top position for his career work and he out-performed KG last year too.
10-09-2008 @ 5:38PM
Eric said...
You should try reading the post on which you decide to comment occasionally -- I find it to be helpful. If anything, the conclusion of this thing is that Garnett may be just as good defensively as Duncan, if not better.
10-10-2008 @ 10:45AM
DUCKHEAD415485 said...
Wrong. Duncans numbers were better last year. Duncan better career numbers. Tim didn't have bowen, robinson, and ginobili for every championship team. He won FOUR rings with three different spurs teams. The only reason the spurs win is cuz of duncan. You can make a case that boston could have won with out garnett.
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10-09-2008 @ 5:32PM
VN said...
What a joke. KG isn't even a top 10 player in the NBA now - nor was he last year. And to even hint that he is better than Duncan is shownig an obvious lack of NBA knowledge.
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10-09-2008 @ 7:29PM
ecash94 said...
KG is not top 10? It was pretty obvious to see that he scaled his game back offensively - though I personally thought his rebounds would stay the same, or increase - just because of the presence of Pierce and Jesus. Put him back on a team as the focal point and there's no doubt he would be back at 21 12 5. Picking between him and Duncan is pretty much a toss up since Duncan has had better players around him for a longer period of time.
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10-09-2008 @ 8:00PM
Rob said...
Ray Allen doesn't crack the top 50?
Come on.
He was better than Corey Maggette last year.
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10-10-2008 @ 11:40AM
drza44 said...
Wrong, Duckhead. Duncan's numbers weren't better than KG's last year, he just played more minutes. Duncan was slightly better on the boards and blocking shots, but KG dominated the rest of the match-up. KG scored at a similar rate but a higher efficiency, had a higher assist% and a lower turnover %, a higher steal%, a higher offensive rating, a lower defensive rating, more offensive win shares, more defensive win shares, a higher PER, a better Roland Rating (82games.com), a better Wins Produced48 number, etc. etc. etc.
Also, Duncan had some combination of Robinson, Ginobili, Parker, and Bowen for every championship team. Before last season, KG played most of his career with Wally Szczerbiak as his second best player and carried such luminaries as Troy Hudson to 51-win seasons. When KG has had comparable talent around him, he has produced comparable team results to Duncan.
Overall, I thought that Tom did a good job laying out the argument in what is (and has always been) a very close comparison between the two.
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10-10-2008 @ 9:53PM
William said...
Garnett's career numbers are inflated by playing with bad teammates for a decade. Last year he played with good teammates and his production dropped a lot. That's why it it not fair and reasonable to claim that KG was better than TD in their prime just because KG posted better numbers.
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10-12-2008 @ 3:30AM
jasen said...
How could Garnett be 4 and Duncan is 5? Is that because Garnett get one ring? Garnett needs at least 2 more rings before he qualify to compare with Duncan.
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10-14-2008 @ 1:21AM
steve said...
man, you are all so angry and just over one man's TOP 50 list. If you disagree, make a better list. Just enjoy it for the cool player bios he gives... i didnt know that kg averaged 23 13 5 over a four year span. The rankings are arbitrary, its stupid to say that one player is better than another when they are all talented enough to take over a game on any night. Pierce looked better than Kobe in the finals; put different teammates around each player and maybe Bryant looks dominant the next time. The only one i got mad about was Steve Nash's and thats just because it was just as much about Chris Paul.
In essence, lighten up everyone... and Tom, ive really enjoyed the list so far.
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10-16-2008 @ 10:14PM
DaGuard said...
From some one who watched every single Celtics game last year, let me tell you that it was KG that brought that team up to the championship level. From day one of training camp, he brought the passion, the intensity, the heart, the hard work, the 120%-effort back to the Celtics organization. It's not how many points you put up or how many rebounds you grab. It's those intangibles that he brought with him and expected of everybody - he elevated everyone to a whole other level. He sacrificed his game so that everyone can play "as a team" (ubuntu). Stats are great, but afterall, basketball is a team game, and whoever can make the team better (with or without the big numbers) will always rate high on my list.
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