Dwyane Wade's Not Happy, But the Clippers Should Be the Mad Ones

Tom,
With all due respect, you have this one all wrong.

Quoting the rule book on what is considered out of bounds
has nothing to do with this situation. Wade clearly released the ball before his feet hit the ground. The objects or persons the rulebook speaks of, do not include the refs of the game. The refs, for all purposes revelant to this rule, do not exist.

Any contact with the ref Wade made before or after his feet hit the ground is not entered into the equation. The ref is not supposed to be in a spot that contact can be made. And that is why the refs reversed their decision and gave Maimi the ball.

But Wade has a right to be upset because his pass would have been an easy lay up or dunk and his team would have had the lead with only a ouple of seconds to play, if the whistle hadn't been wrongly called. The whistle took the play from an uncontested layup to a play where all 5 of the opposing team's players are in position to defend the play. It changed the course of the game.

The refs blew this one. Wade should just let it go though. It wasn't an intentional flub by the ref and nothing can be done about it now. But I can see why he is upset. It cost his team the win.

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NBA Officials Should Offer an Official Apology.

They screwed up. Heat should've won that game.

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No, John R., in all regards to rules of contact in games, officials are not persons.

That surprises you?

You can't see the logic that it is the responsibility of the refs to get out of the way of the players and ball as to not effect the outcome of a play or the game?

Wade wouldn't have hit a "person" before releasing the ball and touching any object or person out of bounds if it not been for the ref being in the line of play.

It was the refs responsibility to not be in way. Since Wade didn't touch anything out of bounds, besides the ref, before releasing the ball, the whistle should not have been blown.

Why it took the refs several minutes of discussion and a reversed call to realize that, should be the real topic of discussion here.

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The Heat might not have necessarily won this game, given that the Clippers would have had time to shoot up a final shot. BUT, the Heat clearly got screwed out of this play, Wade in particular. He has all the right to be upset with the call, as it was a bad one. One of the announcers near the discussions claimed that he heard that the offical who was ran into accidently blew his whistle when Dwayne Wade collided with him, so it wasn't supposed to be called out-of-bounds at all and that's why the Heat ended up with the ball. Who really knows?

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The thing is, the ref was out of bounds... but Wade HAD PASSED THE BALL BEFORE HE LANDED/MADE SIGNIFICANT CONTACT WITH THE REF. There should have been no whistle whatsoever.

The ref just freaked out and exhaled, giving the unintentional whistle.

NBA Officials need to offer an apology.

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Tom,

Again, with all due respect, you are wrong.

A ref is not the same as a cheerleader, fan, coach, assitant or anything or anyone else within that arena. He is an entirely different entity.

You could save us all some valuable time, Tom, by contacting one of your connections with an inside knowledge to the game. A NBA official, a B-Ball ref or the like. Let them explain the distinction a ref has in a game and the responsibilities he has not to be in the middle of the action.

The fault always forfeits to the ref when contact is made because he is the one most able to avoid that contact. The players resonsibility is to play, plain and simple, not avoid bumping into the refs.

You realize that is why the call was reversed don't you?

A cheerleader is a spectator at the game, not an official part of the it. A cheerleader therefore is part of the arena, if you will. It would be the same if David Stern, Howard Stern or the President of the U.S. were there, they would also be part of the arena. Any of those would make your anaogy correct.

But an official ref that is taking part in that game being played, is not part of the arena.

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It is not Wade's responsibility to avoid the ref, it lies with the ref.
Weather contact was made before or after the release of the ball is what Tom questioned. But Adam is correct in saying the ref has spoken and it was an inadvertent whistle. So the ref, didn't feel like Wade violated the out of bounds rule and that was why they got the ball back. The problem that should be discussed here was why the whistle was blown in the first place. That whistle being blown cost the Heat a easy basket and very likely the game.

Why should we be arguing and bringing in the rule book? My first comments where that the rules quoted in the original post didn't apply. But, to be fair, I did continue to argue about the rules, so I am also to blame.

John R., . the analogy of the fat ref being out of bounds and being hit with Wade's pass is not one that pertains to our discussion in the least. And I'm not sure what was "cute" about my attitude. But then again, reading your other posts left on the forums, I guess I am just one more person who is in on the fix and out to get you. Relax and quite worrying so much, you'll live a longer and happier life.

Happy Holidays to you John R., and everyone else.

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Before I am bombarded with comments about it. I mis-spoke about the ref saying his whistle was inadvertent. I should have said it could have been an inadvertent whistle. I misread Adam's comment and thought I was quoting him. My mistake.

I think the ref could have been blocked from seeing the ball, felt Wade bump into him out of bounds and didn't realize the ball had already been released. Then once it was brought to his attention, reversed the call. I could absolutely be totally wrong.

it doesn't mean enough to me though to argue the point with people I don't even know who are, in all likelyhood, decent people.

Sorry Tom and John, if I offended. It wasn;t my intent.

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Ziller and John R. are absolutely right on this one. If Wade were to have jumped into the scorer's table or an out-of-bounds player, nobody would have questioned that. If the ref is out of bounds, anything that's touching him is also considered out-of-bounds. It's unfortunate that this occurred at the end of a close game, but that's the rule and I find it unlikely that Dwyane Wade didn't know about it (unless he's been hanging out with Donovan McNabb).

When Ziller says it's not the ref's job to get out of the way, that's the truth. Yes, we'd prefer the referees to be in optimal places that don't interfere with play, but D-Wade needs to be aware of where everyone is and adapt to the actual situation at hand, not how he wishes it were. "The ref shouldn't have been there" does not change what the rule is and doesn't overturn said rule.

When the shot clock goes out, we don't demand that there's only loose enforcement of 24 second violations for superstars. If there's a wet spot on the floor and someone slips, it's still a traveling violation. This is no different. Wade was out-of-bounds and the rule is non-ambiguous.

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Dave D.,

I totally disagree with your analogy. The scorer's table or anything in that arena, for that matter, is different than a ref.

If the the play would have not been a violation had the ref not been there, then there is no violation. Thats what the refs decided, so they are wrong and you are right?

Besides, he released the ball before making contact, so it's a mute point.

I am curious as to what you, Tom and John think the reasoning is as to why the Heat were awarded the ball?

Because they like Wade more? Because Stern ordered the refs to give Wade special treatment in spite of the rules with 15,000 live witnesses? Because the earth's gravitational pull altered the mood of the ref suddenly and he had a change of heart?

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

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GUS,

Well, unless their reasoning is based on specific rules, it's probably not pertinent to the argument, which is more theoretical. I'm sure they thought it through and did what they thought best, but they're not infallible. Similarly, the argument of if Wade passed before or after contact is a completely different one and also moot.

I don't quite understand your argument in regards to this. Are you saying there is a rule that explicitly states that the referees are not considered a part of the court? You can't undo Courtney Kirkland being there, so it appears the suggested solution is to rule the play as if we could imagine he's not there.

But what about the game a couple years ago when Eddie Rush saved the ball from going out of bounds in a Jazz/Warriors game. Should it have been counted out-of-bounds because that's what would have happened without him? If a referee causes a turnover by being in the way of a pass or a running player, it's not given back. I'm confident that I've seen this rule applied with the referee being out of bounds before (I think a Heat game last year among other times; I wish I could find the specific instances).

I understand that you feel that the ref shouldn't have been there, but he was. What matters after that is what rules should have applied, and it seems clear -- at least to me -- what those rules are.

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The literal interpretation of the rule is that a ref or any object out of bounds renders the ball out of bounds if that object (in this case the ref) is out of bounds when the ball touches it. Unless the rules specifically make an exception for refs, the rule applies and Wade is wrong. Expect the rules to be amended in the near future to address this issue.

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as a heat fan im angered by the call, but by reading the rules it appears d-wade was out, and the call on the floor was right. it doesn't bother me as much as it might, because in a day and age where a lot of calls get botched, the rules were upheld. too bad it put the heat under 500

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