Appreciate all the feedback, even if harsh. Keep 'em coming ... MIKE PAYNE SAID: You were hired by AOL to write controversial pieces. Got it. However, controversy is much more compelling when it is grounded in fact (in this case, statistics). Your brand of controversy has shown to be reflective of your opinion alone, which makes you more of a "sports pundit" than a "sports reporter". There's a place in the world for that, but lists like this aren't gonna earn you the following needed to get you there.
Declarative statements, like those on the Deron Williams/Chris Paul entries on your list, come off as offensive and condescending. You probably didn't run into this when you're writing for a local team audience. Now that you're national, your declarations are just gonna tick the people off who don't share your opinions.
You don't need some random dude pointing out your mistakes, especially when you likely don't see them that way. Its just not a mistake Ziller or Watson would make as writers.
MS: I respect the opinion, but controversial? It's a list, meant to rank a certain group of players in a category. This isn't controversy, it's debate. As for the Williams/Paul thing, that's one of the first things I wrote about.
I wrote that arguing about who was better between the two is futile. They're the top two point guards in the game, it's just a question of which you like better. I like Williams a little more because I think he's a better overall defender _ steals aside_ and I think he has the ability to be as dominant as Paul without having to have the ball as much.
I think the argument is unwinnable, but there are clearly lots of Chris Paul fans out there who think it's already been decided. But I thought we agreed ... if you guys don't give me grief about Williams, I won't give you grief about Paul.
Like the Bird-Magic thing. Never said Bird was better; just said I'd take Bird. Personal preference, nothing more. I've got to admit, the part about being condescending stung a little bit. My wife take's D-Will, too, but she agreed with you about the other part.
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SAMCHICK1 SAID: I think it is just plain stupid to say that a guy like David Lee, who is the 2nd best rebounder in the entire league, & averaging nearly 17 ppg, (despite being undersized & out of position), is just simply only "hard working & consistent," shows basketball ignorance. Lee this past year, only his first as a starter, broke the N Y Knicks Team franchise record for most double-doubles in a season. And not to admit that Dwight Howard IS the best center in the league, just proves my point. Get real!!!
MS: Not a huge fan of the double-double. Yes, it's a solid statistic but it doesn't mean you're a dominant player or necessarily close to being one.
Emeka Okafor, Tyson Chandler and Samuel Dalembert all averaged double-doubles a year ago. Troy Murphy averaged a double-double a few seasons ago. Each of those players has something to offer, but you're team is in trouble if they're your best player
With all due respect, ditto to Lee. The double-double absolutely is a measure of consistency, and Lee gets a lot of credit for that. But he can't really create his own shot, and his scoring mostly comes when he's on the receiving end of a pass or play.
This is a tough list for Lee. Doesn't mean you don't want him on your team. Just means you don't want him to be the best player on your team.
Real quick, I said there were better "players" below Howard on that list. I do think of a Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett as a better "player" than Howard at this point. Duncan and Garnett are refined products. For as good as Howard is, he's still developing. Scary. In other words, never said Howard wasn't the best center in the NBA.
DODGERBLOO 15 WROTE: Not all that sure that Michael Redd is the Bucks best player. They were able to win without him. Now, without Bogut? That team's been awful. I also think thatO.J. Mayo and Derrick Rose are a little too high and Andre Igoudala and Danny Granger are too low. And for the record, Granger is a lot better than Dunleavy. Interesting post and great way to get comments by putting Kobe over Bron and Wade and DWill over Paul.
MS: There was internal discussion about the best players on a few teams: Milwaukee, Charlotte, Memphis and Detroit come to mind. Maybe another team or two. Basically, took Redd over Bogut because he won the coin toss.
You might be right about Derrick Rose. Some of that was based on potential. You take one look at the Bulls these days and it's obvious that they are quickly becoming his team, and for good reason.
Rose makes a lot of big plays for the Bulls, and the only question seems to be how fast and how soon will he begin to approach the level of Williams and Paul.





















Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
3-29-2009 @ 1:49PM
blaqBoi327 said...
wow seems like ya done piss ppl off in here, good job! Your becoming Jay Marioti. Don't get fired like did though...i kid i kid
Reply
3-29-2009 @ 3:31PM
Mike Payne said...
Hey Matt,
Glad to see you read my comment. Here's a response in kind.
This isn't controversy, it's debate.
You say tomato...
I wrote that arguing about who was better between the two is futile. They're the top two point guards in the game, it's just a question of which you like better.
But you didn't write that here. If you don't write, reference or link to that statement in the context of this article, it doesn't exist in the minds of your readers. The result is that the readers who disagree with your *controversial* and declarative statements will feel disenfranchised with you, and upon repetition, the publication as a whole.
Tom Ziller put together a brilliant, well-researched and detailed list of the top 50 players in the NBA here on Fanhouse. Naturally, any list will carry some controversy (see also: inspire debate), but Ziller worked hard to justify his selections with raw facts and statistics. I understand its much harder to do that with a sentence or two per item on a list of 30, but its amazing what you can do with an internet hyperlink nowadays. Like, per se, link to your comments about williams/paul in your introduction.
If ya don't back up opinion-based, declarative statements with fact, you're just going to piss people off.
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3-29-2009 @ 3:33PM
Mike Payne said...
Ahh, apparently italics/emphasis tags don't work on blogsmith comments. Whoops!
3-29-2009 @ 9:27PM
cantstopdrinkin said...
Wow matt you can put that weak answer to Paul/Williams debate but why cant you back it up ? It's because EVERYTHING backs up Chris Paul being a better player and better PG. I think thats why you didnt post my comment, because there is no way you can actually state your case against the facts i provided. Chris Paul is averaging more points, assists, REBOUNDS, less turnovers (in slightly more minutes, and like you just said above with having the ball in his hands more), steals, and shooting better from the floor, three point line, and free throw line. And i know he is called on to do more for his team then Williams but not only does he do that much more for his team but he is much more efficent doing it and the facts back that up also. I understand controversal statements are gonna be debated and have varying opinions but at least try to back up your opinion with something than it just being your opinion.
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3-30-2009 @ 6:48AM
claytor said...
Look, i checked out the list and seeing this, i'd like to point out one glaring issue..
If this simply was a list of best players on the teams and not an overly thought out list of top players overall, then you should've listed the teams in alphabetical order, and not based on who you think are awesome or not.
I liked the concept of merely trying to decide who the best guys on their respective teams are, but i agree, if "coinflips", and shoulder shrugging shot an arrow into the sky logic is determining the second aspect, then don't make the list. There are wayyyyyyyyyy too many factors to determine who is what on the talent scale beyond the first five-seven players mentioned. Redd's injury hurt worse because Bogut has a limited scoring game, the Bucks' record is actually better when Redd is the leading scorer. The Granger call was practically insane, and makes me wonder if you're really watching games. Potential = could be. Potential does not = is. Iggy is(not could be) a triple double capable player who's helped the Sixers not look even more horrid than they really are. Do i think O.J. Mayo is better than him? No, not at all. He might be, but that's the key word: might.
Do you see how whacked out the logic is in spots on your list? This is what happens when something is not thoroughly mapped out.
Concept is only half the delivery, Matt, and while somewhat interesting in a stir the pot manner, you conveniently forsake the other half of a good blog: Rationale.
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