There's no other way to say it, really: the way that Dahntay Jones has chosen to play against Kobe Bryant in the last two games of the Conference Finals has been dirty. The first play in that video clip is the intentional trip from Game 4; the second is a two-handed push in the back from Game 3. The former wasn't even ruled a personal foul at the time, but the latter was upgraded to a flagrant-one a day later.
Bryant took the high road when asked about it post-game, while Kenyon Martin proudly (but not surprisingly) welcomed Jones to the "dirty player" club.
"No, I just fell on my face for no reason. I'm a klutz," Bryant said sarcastically afterwards, when asked if he thought he was tripped by Jones. But when prodded, he said simply, "That was good defense."
"There's another situation out there tonight that was unacceptable by Dahntay Jones," Jackson said. "Just unacceptable defense, tripping guys and playing unsportsmanlike basketball."
Unsportsmanlike is putting it mildly.
There's really no place for plays like that that are meant to injure guys when there's not even a slight attempt at making a play on the ball -- that's why the league upgraded the shove in the back to a flagrant foul the following day, and that's why no one would be surprised if Jones ends up getting suspended for Game 5.
"Tay you a dirty player now, welcome. It's an elite club to be considered one of those."
The club might be elite, but that's because few players in the league want to be slapped with that kind of reputation. Jones obviously doesn't care, at least for the moment. If he's forced to sit out a pivotal Game 5 because of it, however, he might want to reconsider.
Boy you sports writers love to tell the refs how to call a game as if kobaby never got away with some flagrant fouls. kobaby fouls someone every time he guards them. holding an arm here a jersy there slapping someone and then he cries to the refs if someone touched him. Play ball you kobaby you would have not lasted a year when basketball was basket ball some one would have driven you into the stands and you would have been crying your eyes out. I hope that denver (who I don't even like) kicks the latetts butt in game 5 that way kobaby can go find his little sweety in denver and get him some knocking around, I'm sure she would like some more money for the pay off.
you're just as much of a douche bag as jones is. kobe makes contact on some plays when he goes up, throws errant elbows (kinda like johnson did in the cavs/magic game two which resulted in williams looking like larry holmes)...but much like johnsons elbow throw, you'd be hard pressed to admittedly say that he 100% did it on purpose. on top of that, elbows, may sound awful to say, are part of the game. not throwing them like howard did which resulted in his suspension, but you can use them.
anyways, i dont think anyone has blatently done something as dirty, and unsportsman like as this in quite some time....the last thing i can think of is robert horrys hipcheck of steve nash into the scorers table. but honestly, pulling a soccer trip is as dirty as it gets. called kobe kobaby as much as you want, but that still doesn't take away any of jones' douchebag ness, nor yours for that matter.
Kobe is showing remarkable restraint knowing 1 more tech, and he's suspended for a game. Jones should be embarrassed for representing Duke basketball like that..
How soft has the league become when in the playoffs all we hear about are the fouls. I come from the time of the bad boys and allthough something had to be done to leason the risk of players getting injured, i must say they have gone way to far in there punishment. For gods sake man let them play some.
The shove in the back was the most dangerous basketball play I can recall witnessing in many, many years. To shove an airborne player in the lower back with two hands is just an unconscionable act on the court. Anyone who has ever played the game knows this, let alone a professional. That Kobe was able to retain his balance (and even nearly make the shot) does not excuse that fact. I was shocked that the league did not suspend Jones for the play. Perhaps the trip (which was blatant and dirty, but not nearly as reckless as the shove) will show the league that there is a developing trend in Jones' play (he also likes to lean under Bryant when Kobe goes up to the basket or for a shot in an effort to slyly low-bridge him), and they will now suspend him for a game. As much as I would like to see these two teams battle each other at full strength, I feel it's necessary to send a message to Jones that those kinds of plays are not hard-nosed, playoff defensive moves but rather career-threatening cheap shots that have no place in the game.
"Kobe is showing remarkable restraint" come on man. Please sir step away from the superstar there is nothing to see here. Carefull guys play nice with Kobe or he might break. For the guy being such a stud basketball player if someone didnt follow the sport and just read a few things online they would think he had a condition were if he suffers any contact his career is over. And as far as Jones is concerned i havent seen enough "dirty" play to consider him a dirty player yet. It just seems to me this year especially the league has gotten more and more soft. When is the day coming were any contact at all gets u pulled from the game. That will be the day i stop following the sport. Pretty soon big guys in the league will be obsolete.
I come from the time of bad boys also , But thats why its called STREET Ball not pro ball. AND you have got to be on heroin if you acually think Kobe has thrown a kick at someones ankles after they dusted him or pushed with both hands in the back while they are in the air ( Like dir Tey). You know if that were to happen in the "time of bad boys " one of two things would happen .... There would be someone lying dead from a bullet to the head or an all out bench clearing BRAWL period . If you argue that then you need to go back to Candyland where you from Candy ass.
if kobe triped a player like jones did he would be suspended for 3 games..........Pushing someone in the back is a punk move and that combnined with tripping is worthy of a serious beat down. While the refs in the east seem hellbent on helping the cavs, they don't seem to care to much about the ex-MVP possible getting injured by some chump nugget!
u must not notice kobe elbowing people damd near every time he gets in the post. ask ron artest about that elbow to the throat kobe put on him. the commissioner(who only cares about ratings) never gave that a second thought. suspend kobe??? no way....david stern is his biggest fan
Troy, I agree that the focus on fouls has been excessive. There have been plenty of flagrant fouls called that fall into the "good, tough playoff foul" category. But I find Jones' recent play to be an entirely different matter. It's not just textbook flagrant (no attempt on the ball), but also exceedingly dangerous. It is near impossible as a player to retain your balance in the air when someone shoves you in the back or takes out your legs. Unlike a hard foul from the front, it comes unexpectedly and you're unprepared to handle it. The likelihood that the fouled player will end up landing hard or coming down awkwardly (in traffic, no less) and suffering a very serious, possibly career-ending, injury is very great. It doesn't matter if it's done to Kobe Bryant or DJ Mbenga. It's an absolutely reckless play and one that warranted league action. The trip, which is more stupid than dangerous, is just further evidence that demonstrates Jones' intent. His isn't tough playoff basketball. It's cheap shot stuff on any level.
definitely a dirty play but it just shows how kobe gets no respect from other players in the league. You dont see anybody taking cheap shots like that at other players.
by all means, when you don't have quick enough hands or feet, when you can't get in front of the player and stay with them because they smoke you off the dribble...then definitely trip them...this is what passes for 'manning up' these days in the NBA...this is "playoff basketball" which has become a euphemism for "I can't really defend you and you are repeatedly showing me up so I have to do something to hurt you because my ego is hurt so I'll trip you, elbow you in the face, make a "hard foul" when you're in the air and vulnerable, or punch you in the nuts because I am too inept to stop you any other way."
Well said. Kobe brings out the worst in lesser players trying to guard him because he castrates them with little or no effort. Looks like Jones, and Smith are becoming KMart wannabes..
my problem chicken and i agree with alot of your points, Mr jones has been a bit reckless. But if Dj Mbenga commits the same foul on Luke Walton do we have all this chatter regarding it. A full page story dedicated to it. I will give the press this though when Kobe commits his blatant acts it to is covered. But it is spun as well Kobe just got a bit frustrated with all the no calls so he elbows someone with his follow thru. And we have minimal chatter about possiblly Kobe being a dirty player. When a superstar commits unsportsman like conduct we justify it with his passion for winning. When Dahntay does it we call that player a thug. The fans can not make up there mind. One minute there is little contact everyone is saying oh these rich atheletes dont work hard or care about winning, then they commit a hard foul and its all man he should be suspended for the next game. I can see were it is getting more and more confusing for the players. They have to be gunshy about getting kicked out of a game.
Thanks, Troy. I take your point and you're probably right that we wouldn't be talking about this (particularly the trip) if it were between two lesser players. Still, I believe regardless of who's involved the shove is inexcusable and warrants ejection/suspension. Would it be "front page" news if it involved Walton and the Birdman? Probably not. But we should still hear about how Walton was ejected for low-bridging him.
Also, to your point about superstar players receiving special treatment, there's little question that's true. It's always been the case. Superstars are undoubtedly protected, but one of the reasons they are is for precisely this reason. If plays like this aren't penalized to the full extent, what stops lesser players from taking one for the team and simply taking out the other team's best player? Nothing other than basic decency and the consequences of violating the rules. This isn't hockey where if you go at Gretzky, McSorely is going to put a stick in your throat.
I will not argue that Kobe is some saint, just as I don't care if Jones is a thug or not. Kobe's prone to throwing elbows, throwing fits, etc. He's an egomaniacal prima donna. Has Kobe been given lesser punishment on cheap plays? Probably. Does the press maybe call it differently? Sure. I'm not going to argue that's fair. But he's also never intentionally done anything that could possibly end somebody's career. In fact, very few players have. I guess that's my point.
Your point about confusion is absolutely spot on. All I think anyone wants is consistency. I'd rather there be no suspensions for some of the "chippy" plays. I think the Howard elbow, while obviously a cheap shot, hardly warranted a game suspension. And I wouldn't be calling for a Jones suspension for the trip either. It's dirty and cheap and deserves a flagrant 1, but it's not egregious.
The push was. And there shouldn't be any confusion among any of the players that what Jones did is dangerous and worthy of whatever penalty the league decides.
Still, in the end, I and no one else would be bothering with this now if the refs had done what they should've done in the first place and just thrown him out at the time. Because you're right, all the after the fact upgrades to flagrants and suspensions just provide cover to refs not doing their jobs and take away from the actual play on the court.
The focus on fouls has been so much because Nobody can stop Kobe. Other Basketball players actually go above and beyond basketball to stop him(tripping, pushing in the back, flopping, crying for fouls...etc.). It must suck to be on a team Like the Nuggets, you can only claw and scratch your way so far and ask the refs for only so much help VS. a better BASKETBALL Team. Lakers win Games 5 & 6.
Go ahead nuggets fans, watch your team play Great Defense in the video above... not!
aint u the same guy who said the lakers were going to win games 4 & 5?.....im guessing your gonna say they'll win games 6 & 7 if denver kicks their ass in game 5 too.....
as per alberts comments i will leave all that nonsense alone, and slim i do believe we are in agreement. I see nothing in your above statements i disagree with. well i cant resist Albert they werent kicks to the ankles they were elbows to faces as his alleged follow thru. Nothing was more stupid than Kobe trying to defend his attacks as mere follow thru to his shot
Jones, et al. is showing the NBA, Commissioner, and their fans, that they can't win a game honestly, they have to 'play dirty' especially against the soon-to-be NBA Champs of 2008-9, Los Angeles Lakers. ...
"Hey Jones, you're a thug, with NO CLASS" you do your race an injustice.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
5-27-2009 @ 2:34PM
darwin2b said...
Boy you sports writers love to tell the refs how to call a game as if kobaby never got away with some flagrant fouls. kobaby fouls someone every time he guards them. holding an arm here a jersy there slapping someone and then he cries to the refs if someone touched him. Play ball you kobaby you would have not lasted a year when basketball was basket ball some one would have driven you into the stands and you would have been crying your eyes out. I hope that denver (who I don't even like) kicks the latetts butt in game 5 that way kobaby can go find his little sweety in denver and get him some knocking around, I'm sure she would like some more money for the pay off.
Reply
5-26-2009 @ 9:32PM
SimbaDogg said...
you're just as much of a douche bag as jones is. kobe makes contact on some plays when he goes up, throws errant elbows (kinda like johnson did in the cavs/magic game two which resulted in williams looking like larry holmes)...but much like johnsons elbow throw, you'd be hard pressed to admittedly say that he 100% did it on purpose. on top of that, elbows, may sound awful to say, are part of the game. not throwing them like howard did which resulted in his suspension, but you can use them.
anyways, i dont think anyone has blatently done something as dirty, and unsportsman like as this in quite some time....the last thing i can think of is robert horrys hipcheck of steve nash into the scorers table. but honestly, pulling a soccer trip is as dirty as it gets. called kobe kobaby as much as you want, but that still doesn't take away any of jones' douchebag ness, nor yours for that matter.
5-26-2009 @ 3:22PM
demzrdopes said...
Kobe is showing remarkable restraint knowing 1 more tech, and he's suspended for a game. Jones should be embarrassed for representing Duke basketball like that..
Reply
5-26-2009 @ 3:28PM
troy carlton said...
How soft has the league become when in the playoffs all we hear about are the fouls. I come from the time of the bad boys and allthough something had to be done to leason the risk of players getting injured, i must say they have gone way to far in there punishment. For gods sake man let them play some.
Reply
5-26-2009 @ 3:44PM
Slimchicken said...
The shove in the back was the most dangerous basketball play I can recall witnessing in many, many years. To shove an airborne player in the lower back with two hands is just an unconscionable act on the court. Anyone who has ever played the game knows this, let alone a professional. That Kobe was able to retain his balance (and even nearly make the shot) does not excuse that fact. I was shocked that the league did not suspend Jones for the play. Perhaps the trip (which was blatant and dirty, but not nearly as reckless as the shove) will show the league that there is a developing trend in Jones' play (he also likes to lean under Bryant when Kobe goes up to the basket or for a shot in an effort to slyly low-bridge him), and they will now suspend him for a game. As much as I would like to see these two teams battle each other at full strength, I feel it's necessary to send a message to Jones that those kinds of plays are not hard-nosed, playoff defensive moves but rather career-threatening cheap shots that have no place in the game.
Reply
5-26-2009 @ 4:13PM
troy carlton said...
"Kobe is showing remarkable restraint" come on man. Please sir step away from the superstar there is nothing to see here. Carefull guys play nice with Kobe or he might break. For the guy being such a stud basketball player if someone didnt follow the sport and just read a few things online they would think he had a condition were if he suffers any contact his career is over. And as far as Jones is concerned i havent seen enough "dirty" play to consider him a dirty player yet. It just seems to me this year especially the league has gotten more and more soft. When is the day coming were any contact at all gets u pulled from the game. That will be the day i stop following the sport. Pretty soon big guys in the league will be obsolete.
Reply
5-26-2009 @ 7:21PM
Albert S. said...
I come from the time of bad boys also , But thats why its called STREET Ball not pro ball. AND you have got to be on heroin if you acually think Kobe has thrown a kick at someones ankles after they dusted him or pushed with both hands in the back while they are in the air ( Like dir Tey). You know if that were to happen in the "time of bad boys " one of two things would happen .... There would be someone lying dead from a bullet to the head or an all out bench clearing BRAWL period . If you argue that then you need to go back to Candyland where you from Candy ass.
5-26-2009 @ 4:39PM
mcjesus666 said...
if kobe triped a player like jones did he would be suspended for 3 games..........Pushing someone in the back is a punk move and that combnined with tripping is worthy of a serious beat down. While the refs in the east seem hellbent on helping the cavs, they don't seem to care to much about the ex-MVP possible getting injured by some chump nugget!
Reply
5-26-2009 @ 5:31PM
cjohn2112 said...
u must not notice kobe elbowing people damd near every time he gets in the post. ask ron artest about that elbow to the throat kobe put on him. the commissioner(who only cares about ratings) never gave that a second thought. suspend kobe??? no way....david stern is his biggest fan
5-27-2009 @ 6:12PM
dde12053 said...
kobe is a pussy.....whiner.........pushes off all the time.......then cries when they are not called........over rated and over paid.
5-26-2009 @ 4:50PM
Slimchicken said...
Troy, I agree that the focus on fouls has been excessive. There have been plenty of flagrant fouls called that fall into the "good, tough playoff foul" category. But I find Jones' recent play to be an entirely different matter. It's not just textbook flagrant (no attempt on the ball), but also exceedingly dangerous. It is near impossible as a player to retain your balance in the air when someone shoves you in the back or takes out your legs. Unlike a hard foul from the front, it comes unexpectedly and you're unprepared to handle it. The likelihood that the fouled player will end up landing hard or coming down awkwardly (in traffic, no less) and suffering a very serious, possibly career-ending, injury is very great. It doesn't matter if it's done to Kobe Bryant or DJ Mbenga. It's an absolutely reckless play and one that warranted league action. The trip, which is more stupid than dangerous, is just further evidence that demonstrates Jones' intent. His isn't tough playoff basketball. It's cheap shot stuff on any level.
Reply
5-26-2009 @ 5:45PM
kingmole said...
definitely a dirty play but it just shows how kobe gets no respect from other players in the league. You dont see anybody taking cheap shots like that at other players.
Reply
5-26-2009 @ 6:06PM
Michael gifford said...
by all means, when you don't have quick enough hands or feet, when you can't get in front of the player and stay with them because they smoke you off the dribble...then definitely trip them...this is what passes for 'manning up' these days in the NBA...this is "playoff basketball" which has become a euphemism for "I can't really defend you and you are repeatedly showing me up so I have to do something to hurt you because my ego is hurt so I'll trip you, elbow you in the face, make a "hard foul" when you're in the air and vulnerable, or punch you in the nuts because I am too inept to stop you any other way."
Reply
5-26-2009 @ 6:16PM
demzrdopes said...
Well said. Kobe brings out the worst in lesser players trying to guard him because he castrates them with little or no effort. Looks like Jones, and Smith are becoming KMart wannabes..
5-26-2009 @ 6:19PM
troy carlton said...
my problem chicken and i agree with alot of your points, Mr jones has been a bit reckless. But if Dj Mbenga commits the same foul on Luke Walton do we have all this chatter regarding it. A full page story dedicated to it. I will give the press this though when Kobe commits his blatant acts it to is covered. But it is spun as well Kobe just got a bit frustrated with all the no calls so he elbows someone with his follow thru. And we have minimal chatter about possiblly Kobe being a dirty player. When a superstar commits unsportsman like conduct we justify it with his passion for winning. When Dahntay does it we call that player a thug. The fans can not make up there mind. One minute there is little contact everyone is saying oh these rich atheletes dont work hard or care about winning, then they commit a hard foul and its all man he should be suspended for the next game. I can see were it is getting more and more confusing for the players. They have to be gunshy about getting kicked out of a game.
Reply
5-26-2009 @ 7:16PM
Slimchicken said...
Thanks, Troy. I take your point and you're probably right that we wouldn't be talking about this (particularly the trip) if it were between two lesser players. Still, I believe regardless of who's involved the shove is inexcusable and warrants ejection/suspension. Would it be "front page" news if it involved Walton and the Birdman? Probably not. But we should still hear about how Walton was ejected for low-bridging him.
Also, to your point about superstar players receiving special treatment, there's little question that's true. It's always been the case. Superstars are undoubtedly protected, but one of the reasons they are is for precisely this reason. If plays like this aren't penalized to the full extent, what stops lesser players from taking one for the team and simply taking out the other team's best player? Nothing other than basic decency and the consequences of violating the rules. This isn't hockey where if you go at Gretzky, McSorely is going to put a stick in your throat.
I will not argue that Kobe is some saint, just as I don't care if Jones is a thug or not. Kobe's prone to throwing elbows, throwing fits, etc. He's an egomaniacal prima donna. Has Kobe been given lesser punishment on cheap plays? Probably. Does the press maybe call it differently? Sure. I'm not going to argue that's fair. But he's also never intentionally done anything that could possibly end somebody's career. In fact, very few players have. I guess that's my point.
Your point about confusion is absolutely spot on. All I think anyone wants is consistency. I'd rather there be no suspensions for some of the "chippy" plays. I think the Howard elbow, while obviously a cheap shot, hardly warranted a game suspension. And I wouldn't be calling for a Jones suspension for the trip either. It's dirty and cheap and deserves a flagrant 1, but it's not egregious.
The push was. And there shouldn't be any confusion among any of the players that what Jones did is dangerous and worthy of whatever penalty the league decides.
Still, in the end, I and no one else would be bothering with this now if the refs had done what they should've done in the first place and just thrown him out at the time. Because you're right, all the after the fact upgrades to flagrants and suspensions just provide cover to refs not doing their jobs and take away from the actual play on the court.
5-26-2009 @ 6:30PM
dubbz3030 said...
The focus on fouls has been so much because Nobody can stop Kobe. Other Basketball players actually go above and beyond basketball to stop him(tripping, pushing in the back, flopping, crying for fouls...etc.). It must suck to be on a team Like the Nuggets, you can only claw and scratch your way so far and ask the refs for only so much help VS. a better BASKETBALL Team. Lakers win Games 5 & 6.
Go ahead nuggets fans, watch your team play Great Defense in the video above... not!
Reply
5-27-2009 @ 12:01AM
cjohn2112 said...
aint u the same guy who said the lakers were going to win games 4 & 5?.....im guessing your gonna say they'll win games 6 & 7 if denver kicks their ass in game 5 too.....
5-26-2009 @ 7:49PM
troy carlton said...
as per alberts comments i will leave all that nonsense alone, and slim i do believe we are in agreement. I see nothing in your above statements i disagree with. well i cant resist Albert they werent kicks to the ankles they were elbows to faces as his alleged follow thru. Nothing was more stupid than Kobe trying to defend his attacks as mere follow thru to his shot
Reply
5-26-2009 @ 7:54PM
Martin said...
Jones, et al. is showing the NBA, Commissioner, and their fans, that they can't win a game honestly, they have to 'play dirty' especially against the soon-to-be NBA Champs of 2008-9, Los Angeles Lakers. ...
"Hey Jones, you're a thug, with NO CLASS" you do your race an injustice.
Lakers all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply