Without the NBA Age Minimum, Is Derrick Rose a Cheater?

Tom -

You know I admire you as a writer, but this argument is tenuous at best. I know your feeling that the age minimum is unjust and that's fair. However, I don't believe that in a world without the NBA age minimum these transgressions would not, necessarily, have occurred.

Do we know that Derrick Rose would not have gone to college? Did it stop Steph Marbury from going to Ga Tech for a year? Why wouldn't he have gone the Brandon Jennings route? Why couldn't he have played in the NBADL?

I'm just taking from that barbarshop clip a few days ago but you say "We're told by David Stern that the NBA age minimum is a business decision, that the league's owners benefit from being able to see these bucks play for a year elsewhere (college, Europe, D-League)." This is true and I believe this. The league benefits tremendously from this aspect and I'd even argue it's the only reason for the minimum.

"That the league benefits from being able to remove its scouts from high school gyms and AAU tournaments." Eh. Weak argument by Stern, but you could maybe see this.

"That, in the end, the players benefit from the softer transition from amateur to pro." Stern did not say this. He specifically stated "We are not running a social program. We're running a business."

You're right to feel that it's unfair. However, the argument you've raised above is weak. The NBA isn't doing this to improve the reps of their players. They could care less, the goal is to improve the product on the court.

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Wow. That's some serious blame-shifting. The NBA minimum age requirement MADE these players lie, cheat, steal, etc.?! Again, I say, "Wow." I agree with the previous comment and think you are [over]reaching here.

Character is character. And, lack of it is not CAUSED by circumstances, but simply exposed.

Just because a rule gets broken does not mean that the rule is a bad one. For every Mayo and Rose who get in trouble on their way to making the NBA, there are just as many examples of high-school-to-NBA busts (drafted and undrafted alike), and I think you conveniently ignore that to try to make your point here.

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Like most College & NBA players, they can't read or write. Being athletic & intellectual is 180 degree's apart.

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so let me get this straight....this bit of specious reasoning is saying that Rose's cheating and the subsequent slam on his reputation wouldn't have occurred had he been able to enter the draft out of hihg school and therefore to some degree the league is responsible for this????

by that logic, the league FORCED HIM TO CHEAT??? Apparently he has not self control, system of what's right or wrong, no will or mind of his own, no personal integrity, because they were ALL overridden just because the league wouldn't let him play.

right, and Michael Vick is a victim of the network of dog fighters across the country that say it's okay to do.

do you make your living justifying entitlement or is this just a singular instance.

NO ONE is entitled to a job in the NBA. It's a business. IT's their business. And if they want to establish a rule that says he can't play until 19 then so be it. Tell me Tom...what's the age one has to be in order to be a Senator? there's a minimum, do you know it? I'll save you the google search. It's 30 and for a representative it's 25. So by your logic, the government is denying anyone under those ages their opportunity at a political career. Maybe you should campaign for a change on that one as well, after all, isn't a polysci major coming right out of high school being denied???

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NO ONE MADE this kid cheat. It's entirely his own choice. And if he can make the right choice about that one, then he's simply validating the choice by the NBA to keep the age limit where it is. Maybe the sports leagues should start a Psychological profile as well. Then we might weed out the "it's okay to choke your coach" Sprewells, the "it's okay to take a loaded gun into a club" Plaxico's, the "it's okay to take illegal steroids" fill in the blank with your favorite baseball candidate, AND the "it's okay to cheat on the SAT's because I'm ENTITLED to be in the NBA at whatever age I want to be" Derrick Rose's.

And maybe, we just lower the age to 13 because otherwise, we're denying some elementary kid the right to skip high school because he's 'gifted' in sports and could potentially lose future income.

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should read "if he can't make the right choice on this one"

for the english nazi's, yes, a typo but not enough to keep me out of college

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real men dont make excuses.. he fcuked up, plain and simple

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Tom-

Your getting killed by these commenters and they seem to be completely missing the point. Yes a "man" should step up and be responsible for his mistakes. In this country a "man" should also be allowed to pursue the job of his choice. The NBA rule left D. Rose with few (good) options (NBDL and Europe are not ideal). These limiting of options is forcing young men in high school to deal with the handlers and seedy folks that help run NCAA athletics. These handlers are the people with poor character, not necessarily the players.

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I had a teenager who, whenever you made him do chores would deliberately screw it up and yell "Look what you made me do." That's the argument here: that making these young men spend a year in college, or a year playing basketball where they DON'T HAVE TO GO FROM 20 HIGH SCHOOL GAMES to 100 PRO GAMES (with exhibitions/playoffs) is to their detriment? Look at the number of kids who make the jump, right out of high school and find they are NOT mature or strong enough to compete. For every Kobe and Lebron there are dozens of burn outs, kids who might have made it if someone had forced them to mature, physically and mentally, and learn how to play the game at the higest levels. Is it a fluke that Tim Duncan, after four years at Wake Forest, is "The Big Fundamentals?" Or that Kareem Abdul Jabbar, after four years under John Wooden, honed that gangly body into a thing of astonishing grace and precision? Or that Shaq, in two years at LSU, went from a bulldozer of a boy to a man with some of the best ballhandling and footwork ever seen on a pure center? Yes, the system isn't imperfect: you don't scrap it, you fix it, and you don't blame the system for KIDS CHEATING. There are Junior College programs with real basketball teams where the kids who CAN'T cut the entry requirements at Ohio State -- hard to imagine, given some of the dunderheads I had for classmates when I attended. If theyr too lazy to pass the fundamentals for a state college, let them go to Junior College or the Development League: if the kid can't add, why hand him a check with more zero's than he can count? The punchline is simple: it takes more than athletic skills to survive in life, and more than athletic skills just to make it in the NBA. It takes intelligence, maturity to have an enduring, meaningful career. Why not let kids know this in the 10th Grade? I'm not a big David Stern fan, by any means, but blaming the system for O.J. Mayo and Derrick Rose and John Calipari is ridiculous.

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I wouldn't say that the NBA made him cheat, but in regards to guys like OJ Mayo there could be a fix to the problem... I wrote about it a few months back... http://doin-work.com/2009/05/29/just-pay-these-kids-already/#comment-265

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Although I could be mistaken in the following perception, it is my understanding that Derrick Rose [just like any other applicant world-wide] was not under any "requirement" to attend an American college for a period of 1 year prior to being made eligible for legitimate entry into the 2008 NBA Draft.

What's required by the NBA guidelines is that applicants must be at least 1 year removed from their point of high school graduation.

If I happen to be incorrect in this perception, please accept my apology, in advance, and I will happily stand corrected by whoever provides the proper reading of the NBA's applicable rule, in an instance such as this.

If I happen to be correct, however, I would simply suggest that what Derrick Rose did involved an error in judgment on his part and should in no way be viewed as a "result" of an NBA rule twhic "requires" a high school graduate to attend a US college for a year, first, as a student in good standing, before being eligible for the annual NBA Draft.

As plain can see, Brandon Jennings, for exaample, was fully aware of the NBA's current set of rules, in this regard, and exercised his option to not attend a US college for the 1-yr period following his last year in a high school environment.

Derrick Rose had options had legitimate options available ... if his goals were:

- playing basketball for the 2007-2008 season
- attending a US college for the 2007-2008 academic year
- eventually being eligible for the 2008 NBA Draft
- maintaining his own academic integrity

I disagree with Mr. Ziller's take on this matter and respect Derrick Rose's ability as a basketball player.

The shame here, IMO, falls on those adults in Derrick Rose's life at the time, especially those at University of Memphis, who were aware of this situation and chose to either condone the action or simply look the other way.

Thanks for your time.

PS. IMO, [i] SAT scores should not be used to determine a student's eligibility for entrance to college, in the first place; while the NCAA's arcane rules, regarding the operation of inter-scholastic athletic programs needs to be abolished and started anew from scratch, with increased relevance to our modern-day society.

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Okay I humored you for a second...No, thats complete bull.
Maybe the nba age minimum is ridiculous but there are ridiculous rules and laws all over the place that we as clear thinking people must obide by.
Being a complete dumbass who can only survive by his basketball skills does not give one the right to break the law.I'll play athlete for a moment, "It is what it is!"

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The main problem with the age 20 limit in the nba is it is an ILLEGAL prior restraint of trade, and the crooks in the nba KNOW it is illegal, and have known it was illegal since the matter was supposedly settled by the Spencer Haywood law suit in `71, stemming from him trying to capitalize on his fame from the `68 Olympics. The nba is violating the law, not so kids will get a good education, but to try to hide some of their own incompetence. When a kid is drafted out of high school because he has a tight backside, tatoos, earrings, but can`t play, and proves he can`t play, the nba looks bad. But it isn`t the kid`s fault they drafted a guy who couldn`t play. THEY made the choice to draft him, he didn`t FORCE them to draft him. Like the current Louisville scandal. PityNo rents a guy, admits he paid the guy blackmail, but claims he committed adultry with the guy`s gorgeous wife, who never saw a penny. Anyone fool enough to believe that? When basketball decisions are made for non basketball reasons, image building, sexual exploitation, whatever, then basketball suffers. These crooks willfully violating the prior restraint of trade law should be in jail. If a guy can`t play, don`t draft him, 18 or 22 or whenever. If a guy can play, draft him, 18 or 22 or whenever. Europe takes guys at 16, when they finish Euro schools. That is why 6`11, 260 Tyler is going to Israel to work, straight out of high school. Maybe it isn`t safer in America than in a war zone. The last Euro player shot to death was an American in Old Milwaukee. But it OUGHT to be less unsafe here, and men/women ought to have a fair opportunity to compete for a job, even if the have beards, not earrings and tattoos. If they aren`t good enough, waive them, but don`t just black list them, not let them even try.

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make them pay back to the NCAA and the college they now have fked up by cheating and not being man enough to work at having some brain cells and a work ethic out of being paid a stupid amount to play bb, man up Rose you f'n chaeter and go back to night school, lets see how stupid you really r!

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Um, pretty good post for the most part, save for the line " (USC, Memphis, now Kentucky, thanks to John Calipari) just ooze scandal". Hey, I think Calipari is pretty much scum as far as his ethics and morals go, but UK certainly didn't have a pristine rep before this Memphis wrinkle (remember the Chris Mills and Shawn Kemp fiascos of the late 80's?).

As for Rose, it appears he made a bad decision indicative of his youth and inexperience in light of playing ball at all costs. He should certainly be forgiven of his misdeed --though his rep will surely take a hit -- as should Mayo for mainly the same reasons. One more reason to distinguish an athlete's athletic achievements from his/her doings outside of the profession, for "role models", at least off the court, these people are not.

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Their is no "right" to play college basketball. THe benefit of a player who can academcially qualify for college is to have a lot of exposure, a benefit to which Rose used to his advantage by increasing his draft stock, being selected #1, and getting a shoe contract.

He is not entitled to those benefits the NCAA provides just because he can't go to the NBA. If he couldn't academically qualify, then he should have played in Europe, the NBADL, or other basketball opportunities. College Ahtletics are a privilege to those who can qualify for college. Rose cheated his way to all those privileges without making the academic sacrifices he should have in high school to earn those benefits. Rose deserves and earns any ill will from this, but unfortunately this will blow over and no one will care.

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I'm not sure what's more ridiculous... Tom's statement that the NBA somehow made Derrick Rose cheat on his SATs, or Sweetlady2728's statement that the NBA's minimum age requirement is some form of racial discrimination.

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SweetLady`s second point was obviously right. The Ncaa lobbied the Nba to stop bidding up the wages of the top college basketball players, which the Nba illegally colluded with the Ncaa to do. The Ncaa does not care about the education of the athletes, many don`t not have a degree at all after 4 or 5 years, many others have vague degrees like General Studies or Liberal Arts. Girl`s finishing school degrees. Yes, a guy who cheats to get into college will cheat at other things, but where is the indignation at the colleges cheat to get the substandard students in, to exploit them at low wages, to generate high profits for the colleges. And that only happens in men`s football and basketball, because they are the only sports which DO make money. Colleges are not the pro minor leagues. The Nba has the Nbdl for that, if the guy isn`t good enough for the Nba, let him try there, or Europe, but if he can compete in the majors at 16 or 18, why shouldn`t he? He`s a legal adult at 18, it is against the law to NOT hire him if he is good enough. Guys are full grown by about 16, maybe some could compete even before being full grown. Isn`t honest competition, not illegal prior restraint of trade, what America is supposed to be about? Rose continues to tarnish his own reputation, but in doing so, he follows the example of a long line of public officials, mainly of which ever political party happens to have a long run in office, so mainly the Republicans the last couple of generations. But if the Democarats get a solid run in office, some of them will cheat, too. The Nba is cheating itself, not only violating the law, but violating its own rules. Last year`s all star game the east was supposed to pick a back up center for Howard. It didn`t, it picked a small forward, Bosh, who was starting with two bigger guys, O`Neal and Bargnani, in Toronto. And when he was injured, they still didn`t follow their own rules, they picked a point guard, Williams, who produced maybe a third as well as his teammate, James, in the playoffs. Rose has learned from example, cheaters prosper, so he is prospering the tried and true way. Wearing an earring, faking exams, cheating himself and others thru life. A shame. And a shame he is only to blame for doing what is proven to work, when it should be proven to fail.

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